09/06/2015 at 2:26 PM #2763
Thanks to some great camera work, and some flying by Ociex, we have a couple of clips of AI pilots in combat training.
From inside Ociex’s Vulture, his fight against Vyvian in a Courier
Kestril in his Vulture vs Vyvian in a Courier
Here’s some music Kestril recommends to listen to while you watch
09/06/2015 at 2:36 PM #2764
Here are some screenshots between Ociex and Vyvian’s dogfight.
09/06/2015 at 3:45 PM #2766CMDR PingKeymasterRank: Senator
So, do we have an answer? is the Courier better than the Vulture?
09/06/2015 at 3:50 PM #2767
Tough to tell Mr. Ping, tough to tell.
What was the final result between you and DaMorgs in beta?
I’m currently 2-1 up in the Courier against Vultures.
09/06/2015 at 4:11 PM #2769
Currently up 1-0 against Couriers 😛
I think “better” depends on if you want the hard-hitting sting and knifefight potential of the vulture weighed against the courier’s speed and cost. In the fight, our shields would drop at roughly the same time, so shield strength is comparable.
Also, at range, vyvian was at a loss against the more powerful class 3 laser, so he had to stay close or get beamed. This kinda worked out for me, as the vulture has better maneuverability (albeit I was a bit slow on the turns).
They are comparable, and the courier is less expensive. Couple that with the ability for the courier to potentially solve it’s long-range problem with a railgun, and the courier gets really potent for it’s price.
That said, I when I put pips to engines, the maneuverability of the vulture completely changed the fight (at around six mins in the video) and outclassed vyv. I was able to get shots without return fire. So in a 1v1 scenario to the death, I think the vulture has the advantage, but the courier has the speed to disengage.
Not making a conclusion, those are just my thoughts on the matter. The courier certianly is an impressive cost-effective ship, almost drawing a ship that has a base cost nearly four times more than itself.
So yeah, tough call, but the courier is definitely cost effective.
(Also, what did Ociex do to the teamspeak audio? I kinda liked our banter XD)
Look closely, It looks like at 6:40 you’re gimballed pulse WAS NOT tracking me do to heatsinks and silent running. iiiiinteresting. I knew those heatsinks were good for something. Either that, or I was out of your gimball arc. O.o Denton’s probably like:
09/06/2015 at 6:31 PM #2783
Great assessment of the fight Kestril. Couldn’t agree with you more. One thing though, boost speed of Couriers and Vultures wiht A thrusters and good weight managemenr are very similar, 395ish on both.
Might have to try it again with a Railgun. While it has some advantages, in a fight like that I would have likely run out of ammo.
I would say that the Vulture is a great ship, and should factor heavily in our defence of Empire space. 2 Vutures in wings, one using Fixed beam and Gim Pulse, the other Fixed Beam and Gim Cannon should be able to chase away most ships, and destroy a good number as well.
Couriers on the other hand, due to their cheap running costs and insurance are better for forays into Federation territory. A couple of these acting in wings can cause a lot of trouble and the speed that they can travel long distances means that if the enemy tries to stop our undermining efforts we can quickly jump to another system and start again.
I think it is fair to say that if you encounter an enemy Vulture, you should engage with the Courier. It is quite capable of winning the fight, but if you feel your opponent has you outclassed, you will have time to disengage and jump out.
09/06/2015 at 6:25 PM #2782
10/06/2015 at 5:10 AM #2800CMDR KarranthParticipantRank: Principes
My question is why not have hit and run squads consisting of 2 couriers and a vulture. CourierS can find and engage targets vulture snaps to beacon and comes in as the sword to courier daggers?
I believe by using this we balance each other the two ships very apparent strengths.
10/06/2015 at 11:51 AM #2804
I agree. Adding diversity to a wing always strengthens it.
To be honest the Vulure is the stronger ship of the two. In the hands of a pilot like Kestril I doubt it will ever be beaten by a Courier. (Really want to see a fight between Kestril and Fox by the way and would love to see how Hazara in his Courier goes against the Vultures.)
The jump range on the Courier is very similar to the Vulture (if you equip the same bulkheads), but the fuel tank lasts twice as long on the Courier, and you can fit an A3 fuel scoop on the Courier without harming its combat capabilities. This means that the Courier can quickly cover the distance to Fed space and start some trouble. Travelling as a wing of two Couriers, you can move quickly and protect each other.
Hence why I suggest for Undermining missions, we use 2 Couriers. If others want to join the wing in other ships like Vultures and Clippers, then they will add some great attributes to the wing when they eventually get there.
For defensive wings inside Patreus space, Vultures can quickly get to the conflict, hence they would be the better choice.
Obviously there are better choices than wings of two Couriers or two Vultures, but these two ships are already owned, or soon within reach, of many of our members, and the running and rebuy costs on these ships aren’t too astronimical, hence why small wings of these should be considered.
10/06/2015 at 12:31 PM #2805Blain CrightonParticipantRank: Triarii
If it wouldn’t be such a bear to co-ordinate, this could be perfect a role for a Type-6 Tanker.
Meeting up with the combat wing to refuel them half way and in turn freeing up the slot the fuel scoop goes in.
Two ships could tank twice
10/06/2015 at 1:25 PM #2806
It felt like you were ahead most of the fight. In fact, my shields dropped before yours did IIRC.
The real talons of the vulture come out when shields drop.
Not to give anything away, but I’m keeping those heatsinks 🙂
The jump range on the Courier is very similar to the Vulture (if you equip the same bulkheads), but the fuel tank lasts twice as long on the Courier, and you can fit an A3 fuel scoop on the Courier without harming its combat capabilities. This means that the Courier can quickly cover the distance to Fed space and start some trouble. Travelling as a wing of two Couriers, you can move quickly and protect each other. Hence why I suggest for Undermining missions, we use 2 Couriers.
Yeah, I’d agree you don’t really need the class 3 weaponry to threaten federal couriers, and the cheaper rebuy is a great asset, so you’re not risking too much when deep in enemy territory. Also, the courrier’s small profile made it harder to hit with fixed weaponry, combined that with those crazy shields, and it’s a very tough fighter.
For defensive wings inside Patreus space, Vultures can quickly get to the conflict, hence they would be the better choice. Obviously there are better choices than wings of two Couriers or two Vultures, but these two ships are already owned, or soon within reach, of many of our members, and the running and rebuy costs on these ships aren’t too astronimical, hence why small wings of these should be considered.
Vultures are great defensive fighters, and can threaten anacondas with the class 3 weaponry they pack. I think they are the clear winners of defense (rivaling the Fer De Lance) While their heavy weapons allows them to threaten larger ships, their supreme maneuverability makes them devastating against smaller ships.
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